Just a question or three please?
How much should a flat white cost in Cape Town? I am talking about a properly prepared cup of the good artisanal stuff prepared by an ace barista?
A) how much do you want to pay (seriously)?
How much is a fair price for a flat white in Cape Town?
B) what do you expect to pay?
C) how far would you go for something special (a unique variety, say blue mountain or perhaps, Panama Esmeralda Geisha Especial Lot 1) ?
from way back in 2010 we posted this
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8 Comments
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You ask for a fair price – and assume this would include “properly prepared cup of the good artisanal stuff prepared by an ace barista”. Well, I think ZAR 18 is a price I would pay for that. However, this is still not fair!
If you really want to offer fair coffee for a fair price, then I think in 2012 (and beyond) fair-traded coffee, that also pays a fair price to coffee farmers and their families (which will allow them a decent life in dignity), then that fair price should contain a premium – of let’s say another ZAR 5-7. I also think, since this is a question of principle, it should not be just one out of several coffees you sell, but it should be a basic requirement for every decent coffee!
Because, honestly, how can I enjoy your excellent coffee, if I know that the guys who made it in the first place have not much to enjoy in their lifes?
That’s what gives some competitors like “Bean There” an edge, I’m afraid…?
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Author
We agree with you wholeheartedly. We also feel that organisations like Bean There are doing a good job. We do not however believe in “Fairtrade” on word, but fair trade as a concept. The Fairtrade price of coffee has averaged around the $1.60 mark for green beans, while the market place has suffered at $1.30 or thereabouts. Any reputable artisan roaster is buying super premium beans, and micro-lots at that, and on a direct trade basis, has ensured the farmer gets over $5. 3-4 times more than Fairtrade minimums. While we support other organisations right to certification, we feel it is more important to deal with ethical organisations than those that hide behind labels. We believe Bean There, like us, is an ethical buyer, not because of their certifications, but in spite of them, they are not ethical due to the labels they choose but due to their ethical philosophies and their righteous owners. If only all other companies followed suit the coffee world would be more equitable. Sadly many customers think only about the final price, believing that it is the only issue, and the companies supplying them sadly follow suit. I hope we never will bow to such pressures.
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… and I’ve just read your post on fair trade: http://www.truthcoffee.com/you-dont-purposefully-buy-fair-trade-coffee-2/
I don’t really see the point. I totally agree with what you write – and I’m all for relationship coffee trade. But IF (as you claim) your farmers receive up to twice the market price anyway, then what stops you from getting the fair trade certificate?
And who tells me as a consumer walking into a coffee shop, that this here now is relationship trade, that does yield a decent salary to the farmer – if not some fair trade label? Who guarantees that there are not people who do some sort of relationship trade that still produce indecent prices – if not some fair trade label?
In your article, you haven’t really made a single point against getting certified, I think…
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Imagine this scenario:
Two very third world neighboring coffee farmers. Imagine they are of a similar size with similar skills and practices and treat their workers equally fairly. At the end of year 1, farmer A somehow scrapes together a few hundred dollars to buy into Fairtrade certification and get it done. Is he entitled to then always get a premium over farmer B who is excluded from the fairtrade system? of cours each year farmer A has more cash available as farmer B finds markets becoming increasingly closed off to him. Should Farmer B’s workers now accept pay cuts or perhaps turn to other crops? Farmer B will now almost certainly never hav surplus resources and will always be excluded. Ethical companies. Not ethical labels. Many multinationals as you referred to have an ethical line or two. This is Greenwashing. Labels are something more useful to hide behind, than a symbol of an ethical company. Most of the companies you deal with as ethical are ethical across their entire line and practices, and the labels they choose to use or ignore do not change their status as truly ethical any more than an ethical label or two turn that corporate swine into a charming haven of good.
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David, thanks for you extensive reply. I do appreciate you taking the time for it!
Now, what you write makes a lot of sense – and I believe you 100%. It’s just: it makes a lot of sense for you as a producer and seller. From this perspective I can completely follow and support your points. From my perspective, that of a simple consumer, things are a bit more difficult
You know your stuff 100% and you can engage and make sure things are fair and then you’re happy. I trust you in this particular case, because we have been engaging in this exchange and you have explained your view and have educated me. A job well done!But I cannot engage in such an exchange everytime I want to buy a sensitive good, for evey cup of coffee, for every bouquet of flowers, for every pack of orange juice, for every kilo of bananas. I can come to your coffee shop to buy my coffee, but what if I’m in Joburg, Zürich or Bangkok? What about all the tourists from Sweden or Argentina in Cape Town, who actually do care about fair prices, but they simply cannot engage first in a blog conversation with you to learn about the particular ethics of “Truth Coffee” (and all the optional market players in Cape Town)?
Furthermore we cannot rely on the assumption that all artisan coffee shops are fair trade. There must be outliers, suppliers that jump on the bandwagon. In fact I’m sure there are more many of those – there have been artisan roasters here, who have verbally claimed they follow similar ethics as you do, but I’m not convinced at all! Origin, Caturra, Seattle, Vida et Café, Escape, … they all are same standard as you? How do I know as a simple consumer without your professionalism, knowledge and expertise? Do you know about all the bananas you buy?
There is only one way so far that I know of: certification. If I trust the label, then I’m ok as a consumer. I do and will buy that stuff whenever and whereever I can (beside “Truth Coffee” of course). If the fair trade system has its flaws as you explain – well then those must be weeded out. But I still think it’s a good thing, I still support it and I still hope it will prosper as a system.
Can you understand my situation?
Have a good day! Looking forward to being at your place tomorrow night to see “Design + Thinking”!
-marc-
I respect your position and understand your point of view. We need to move beyond greenwashing and I am making my small but perhaps ineffectual stand. I will continue to tilt against those windmills. Labels and greenwashing are what they are. Do you support Nestel now that they have a Fairtrade version of the Kit-Kat out there? Perhaps it is best to only deal with companies who will openly answer tough questions asked of them. I hope we do. Have you asked those other roasters and cafe’s? some on your list are ethical traders. Others aren’t. Their answers should make it obvious.
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The issue here seems to be one of transparency regarding costs and profit. In the end you want everyone to feel that the price is ‘fair’. So, what about creating a visual description similar to the coffee itself. Here is an example: think of the ingredients in a double shot flat white. How much coffee (& water), how much milk, how much froth, etc. is in a cup? I would assume that those amounts are rather consistent. We know what we are getting. But from a cost perspective, how much do all the parts of the ‘good artisanal stuff’ actually cost: the ingredients, the overhead, the ace barista salary, the vibe & the profit margin? You could actually show it on the wall. this is how your R18 (for example) gets used.
And if you want to then get creative, consider asking people to set their own price. The more they pay, the more that could go to: 1. the growers, 2. the training of staff from ‘previously disadvantaged’ communities, 3. Truth Coffee R & D, 4. whatever you think is worth supporting. Do you see what I mean? I know I think it would be very cool and would happily pay more if it was simply made transparent what I was paying for. That way I am then included in the relationship (almost a micro investor), in a way that is far more empowering that just ‘believing’ in a label, such as Fair Trade.
PS – In the world of philanthropic giving there is lots of evidence that this type of solution (where people are given a choice) actually increases giving.
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George, exactly, watch this space. Particularly when we open the HQ. Not saying anything more for now.
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